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Author Topic: Eyes not quite white...  (Read 17244 times)
Sonny
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« on: May 08, 2005, 11:48:47 AM »


Dear Skye Herbals,

My name is Sonny, and I'm 24-years-young Indian guy with a few health issues, but one thing stands out: my eyes are never quite white, and the brown in my eyes never quite sparkles.

So I'm wondering a few things, which hopefully you can help me with....

How big an effect does the liver have on the whiteness of the eyes?  I've done 2 10-day Master Cleanser cleansing fasts now and eat a healthy vegan diet, but my eyes still aren't as white as many people I know who eat a great deal of fast food (Standard American Diet) and have never done any internal cleansing. 

From what I've read, it seems like *maybe* I have a weak and/or congested liver, though the cleansing fasts should have cleared that condition (and I'm fairly young still too). 

I also read that traditional Chinese medicine associates emotionally sensitive personality types with weak livers.  That might be a clue for me, since I *do* have that personality type.  Do you think there's any truth to this?

I'd love to hear your thoughts and insights on this.  If it's my liver after all, then I want to nourish and strength and tone it while continuing to eat healthy.  I'm just lost right now and would really appreciate your guidance to help me to get back on track.

Sincerely,

Sonny

P.S. I have also have chronic skin problems.  I had severe acne on my face, neck, shoulders, chest, and back in my teenage years, and while I've reduced that by 95% by changing my diet, reducing stress, and internal cleansing, it persists to a small extent.  This is my other clue that something is still amiss with my liver.
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2005, 11:47:30 PM »

Sonny,
   Thank you so much for your heart felt post, and your willingness to share of yourself.  I will do my best to answer all of your questions, and after reading your post to Carrie (my wife, and fellow acupuncturist and partner in this company), she will probably be adding in her own response as well. 

    I hope you understand that by law, I can not directly talk about your body in terms of making public health claims, but I can share with you the theory of Chinese Medicine as it relates to your questions.  Still, there is much wisdom in this system of medicine that you may be able to directly relate to your own experience.  So,...

...,my eyes are never quite white, and the brown in my eyes never quite sparkles.
So I'm wondering a few things, which hopefully you can help me with....
How big an effect does the liver have on the whiteness of the eyes? 

In Traditional Chinese Medicine, the eyes are the outward expression of two things.  The liver manifests in the whites of the eyes and the spirit manifests in the iris and pupil. 

I should stop here to say that the "Liver" should have never been given this name when the word was translated from Chinese.  The original word was "Gan" which was in reference to a grouping of symptoms / functions.   For example, the Gan rules the rhythm of the menstrual flow in women, it controls the smooth flow of Qi in the body, it nourishes the sinews, governs the smooth flow of emotions, and is responsible for all functions that you associate with the western Liver organ as well.  The associated season is the springtime.  To read more about the spring time and the element of "wood" which is associated with this system, you can read an article that we posted on another website at: The Essence of Spring

So, getting back to the eyes, whiteness and sparkle,. . . The liver expresses through the whites of the eyes.  Now, this is your "Gan" system.  Not necessarily your liver organ.  Associated with the "Gan" is also a quality of spirit, referred to as the Hun.  The translation of this into English is usually "Etherial soul" or "transcendental soul."  It is one aspect of spirit.  When referring to the entire collection of qualities of spirit, Chinese medicine calls it "Shen".  What is seen in the eyes is a combination of pure Shen and especially Hun.

What makes a Shen sparkle? This is a hard one as it is so specific for each individual.  The decision to sparkle?  Could be.  Usually we might say: will, love, compassion, wisdom, emotion, passion, just to name a few.  The only real way that the "Gan" can affect the eyes to the degree of removing the sparkle is if the emotions no longer flow (resulting in either no emotions, or depression).  If the emotions are flowing and you can cry, you can laugh, you can have compassion, then during all of these times the eyes sparkle whether you can see them or not.  Just reading your post I can tell you that your eyes sparkle.  It was very heart felt.

As to the whiteness, well that I cannot see.  But yes, the "Gan" does affect the eyes.  When it is out of balance the eyes might not be quite white.  They can be jaundice yellow.  They can be blood shot red.  In either case, or any variation there of, Chinese Medicine traditionally would point someone towards dietary changes to support the liver system (see article).

From what I've read, it seems like *maybe* I have a weak and/or congested liver, though the cleansing fasts should have cleared that condition (and I'm fairly young still too). 

I can't say if your liver system is congested or weak or not, but I'm not a huge fan of the master cleanse.  The "Gan" can remain stagnant throughout it, as I have witnessed with some people.  Other people love it and respond very quickly.  Each body is different, and what is good for some is not good for all body types.  I usually take on a more long term, balanced approach as linked in the article above.  I have also worked through gall bladder flushes, which are sometimes done with the master cleanse.  This can really remove some heat from the liver system, but should definitely be supervised by a local health care physician.

I also read that traditional Chinese medicine associates emotionally sensitive personality types with weak livers.  That might be a clue for me, since I *do* have that personality type.  Do you think there's any truth to this?

It depends what you mean by emotionally sensitive.  In Chinese Medicine, the following emotions relate to the related organ:
Liver: stress, anger    ..... calmness, gentleness
Heart: hate, over joy ..... compassion
Spleen: over-thinking, ..... clarity of thought
Lungs: sadness, grief ..... wisdom
Kidneys: fear ..... courage, will

The "Gan" specifically can stop all emotions from flowing which results in "boredom" and "depression."  If the most commonly expressed emotion is one of the other emotions listed above, than that would be the organ of imbalance.  It is a little more complicated than this, but this is the basics.  So, someone who is always sad, we would look at the lungs.  Always thinking, and we would look at the spleen.  Again, these are not necessarily the organ associated with western medicine, but actual groupings of symptoms and functions in the body.  For example, in TCM, the spleen is in charge of our body's ability to absorb energy from the food we eat, but the actual physical spleen in western medicine has NOTHING to do with this function and NO Oriental Medical Physician when discussing the spleen in this way is ever referring to the physical spleen of our physical anatomy.  This is just one clear example of bad translation.

I'm just lost right now and would really appreciate your guidance to help me to get back on track.
I hope this information helps and is not too overwhelming.  I would look closely at your diet and can offer the link above as a direction I usually send my patients.  It is based off of suggestions from Paul Pitchford’s book “Healing With Whole Foods”, which is linked at the end of the article.  Finally, on the healing path if you ever think that you are lost, you are not.  Even if you don’t know where you are, you are right where you are supposed to be.  It sounds cliché, but it is true.  When it comes to finding your path through personal healing, healers can give you direction, but your body is the ultimate teacher.

I have also have chronic skin problems.  I had severe acne on my face, neck, shoulders, chest, and back in my teenage years, and while I've reduced that by 95% by changing my diet, reducing stress, and internal cleansing, it persists to a small extent.  This is my other clue that something is still amiss with my liver.

95% better.  That is great work! Carrie had eczema all over her body for many years to the point that no human should have to suffer, and she was able to reduce it by 100% over the course of 5 years.  The skin can either be very easy or very difficult, but the "Gan" system being healthy makes the skin that much more healthy.  Acne can be caused from many reasons, but starting with the liver and diet is the best place to start in my experience.  Best of luck on your journey and let us know if we can help in any other way.
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Sonny
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2005, 07:59:55 PM »


Dear Mark,

Thank you so much for sharing so many of your insights with me.  I think it's great because I've never heard many of these concepts.  For example, I had no idea that Chinese Medicine is referring to more than the physical organs despite using the same names (like the "spleen" example you mentioned).

I do feel that I'm making progress with my health, but the problems I've mentioned with my skin and lack of bright whiteness in my eyes (they're a very dull off-white most of the time but never seem quite yellowish to me) are lingering issues.

And I think I keep coming back to my eyes because of some things I read a few years ago about iridology being able to make amazing diagnoses just by looking at a person's eyes.  And then I read that Chinese Medcine also considers the eyes very important in assessing overall health.  I feel that since my overall health isn't yet optimal, there might be some connection to my eyes.  Is my intuition probably right on this?

I was also wondering: Should everyone have bright whites in their eyes or is partially genetic to have dull off-white whites?  I've just noticed so many people with unhealthy processed food diets who have very white eyes that it's sometimes hard to believe that diet is a major factor, though again my intuition--and pure logic--says it must be.

Eyes aside, I'll now *try* to relate some of my fears and weak points, in case it helps you to put my health issues in a broader context....
 
My biggest weak point is that I struggle tremendously to be vulnerable with and in front of others...even with my own family.  For example, I can cry about things in private to release emotions (in those now rare occasions when I haven't simply released the emotions by letting them go) but can't remember any time since my childhood when I shed a single tear in front of others.  And while I'm not sure of all the reasons why I've developed this fear (there's definitely been traumatizing experiences contributing to it), I'm pretty sure it's having some negative impact on my health.  It seems like my ability to smile and laugh throughout the day with others helps me to just barely maintain some minimal balance, but somehow I just know that it's not the best, most-balanced person I can be.

In addition, by emotional personality type, I meant that I experience everything in the world with feelings and say things like "I feel..." countless times a day, even though I'm an engineer by trade.  I think this is called a kinesthetic personality type?

And just this past week I learned once and for all that I'm strongly introverted, after reading part of an excellent book called The Introvert Advantage.  The book makes a strong case for a genetic physiological mechanism that causes being around others to deplete my energy rather than replenish it as is the case for extroverts.  Introverts like me also have a strong tendency to think deeply about most things, which I do.  I sincerely enjoy being lost in thought...so maybe that's a spleen thing in Chinese medicine?

Finally, here's a summary of some of my physical issues that led me to believe that my liver may not be functioning optimally:

--I'm *very* thin for my height.  I'm 5'11" and hover between 115 and 120 pounds.  It seems like I may not be assimilating nutrients well, despite getting a great deal of them in my whole foods vegan diet.

--Skin problems.  I have lingering facial oiliness, and still intermittent minor breakouts on my face, neck, and upper body.

I also have chronically somewhat dry skin on my upper body, especially on my upper arms and throughout my back.  I've taken essential fatty acids (esp. Flax/hemp oils for omega 3 oils) but they never seem to get absorbed well, even if taken with lecithin.  Moisturizers only work for a few hours as well (no surprise there). 

--Eyes not truly white.

--Especially cold hands.  Maybe I have blood circulation issues?  This would make sense since blood transports heat, right?  I often become tense when I'm feeling some fear which I suppose can constrict blood vessels and reduce blood flow to my extremities (like my hands), causing them to become cold.  But I know it's more than that because they've often been cold even in the absence of fear and tension.


Whatever it is, there's definitely either something missing (nutrient, energy flow, etc.) or something currently there that shouldn't be that's preventing me from being radiantly healthy.  But fixed in my mind is an image of a much healthier me...a stronger, more energetic me who can be more and give more.  I just need a little push in the right direction to get there.

Thank you again for your time and your help to give me that push.  I truly have no idea how to express the depth of my gratitude for it.

Sonny
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2005, 10:57:56 AM »

Sonny,
  Thank you for sharing of yourself in this forum.  There is so much here, yet I am unable to answer any specifics about your body and your situation (as it is our board policy).  I will try and answer the theoretical questions, but can't answer anything about your relationship to them.  

Quote
I feel that since my overall health isn't yet optimal, there might be some connection to my eyes.  Is my intuition probably right on this?
This is a hard one.  Everybody's eyes are different.  Sure, some say the whiter the better, but I have seen some beautifully healthy individuals with some yellow in their eyes, and some very unhealthy people with bright white eyes.

Quote
In addition, by emotional personality type, I meant that I experience everything in the world with feelings and say things like "I feel..." countless times a day, even though I'm an engineer by trade.  I think this is called a kinesthetic personality type?
I worked for a while coaching business executives on holistic wellness while living in California.  Durring that time I read an amazing book:  Executive Coaching with Backbone and Heart.  It talks about emotions, and business.  Very interesting stuff.  You might enjoy it.  The idea is how to balance backbone (non emotional, cold business), with heart (kinesthetic emotionally integrated being).  It does a great job of talking about all types of executives, from middle management to CEO, and on each level it discusses the relationship between cold business and heart.  If you are into this stuff, great read.

Quote
I sincerely enjoy being lost in thought...so maybe that's a spleen thing in Chinese medicine?
This can be spleen or kidneys in Chinese medicine.  It is hard to know without doing a complete intake.  If there is a local oriental medical physician near you, it may be a worthwild journey.  The oriental medical tradition that deals mainly with the emotions is called 5 Element (just in case you have a few practitioners to choose from, this might be the direction for you).

Quote
Especially cold hands
Can be circulation in a western sense, can be "liver" "kidneys" or "heart" in an Oriental Medical view.  In either case, good food, and lots of movement of the body are both good ways to help the hands warm up.  There are herbs as well, but finding an activity that you enjoy, be it running, walking, playing basketball, boating, or just strolling outside.  These are beyond important if one wants to truly be healthy.  In most cultures in order to survive we had to go hunt, or farm.  There were houses to be built by the community, water wells to be dug, fishing boats to be fished.  For some of us now, unless we make ourselves go outside and work in the yard, we find ourselves building websites and programs with our fingers, while our body watches.  This is new for the human experience, and yes, cold hands and red eyes (especially for those that due line code) can result.  But when we can get out and expand and enjoy the beauty of the sun and wind, our bodies tend to be more happy, our moods tend to lighten.  Just a thought.  i know that it is true for me, so I get out and move my body as often as I can.

I have some clients that are CEO's that get very bad back pain.  They are the first to work and the last to leave (pulling 14 hour days, 6 days a week).  Durring crunch time, their bodies go through it.  But the successful ones, tend to take a one hour lunch break where they run, go to the gym, etc.  I have the ones that get back pain due 10 minutes of yoga (a few deep stretches, 5 times a day).  It makes a huge difference to get out of the head, and into the body.  It is usually during these times that they get new perspectives on the day's direction, breakthrough insights into projects.  But that is never the goal.  The goal is to feel and be with the body.  That is how they learn to balance backbone and heart.
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mari
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2005, 02:50:52 PM »

This thread has been truly insightful to me, now I'm thinking maybe I should find a PCP that deals with traditonal Chinese medicine as well!
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2005, 03:31:24 PM »

It's the way forward Wink
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mari
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2005, 06:44:32 PM »

Do you know of a good one in the Rockford area in Illinois that you would reccommend?
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2005, 04:51:36 PM »

Not in NY, but here is a good location to start for US acupuncturists:
NCCAOM
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Sonny
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2005, 10:07:38 PM »


Awesome, thank you again for all of the great info.  I do find that I can balance the "heart" more with the "backbone."  I've cultivated a great deal of heart and really struggled with the backbone.

Anyhow, I thought it was really funny that you talked about software engineers, since I am one myself.  I'm at work upwards of 10 hours a day and, though I take breaks, most of the time I'm still looking at my computer or reading something else.  I usually only get out for a 15 minute stroll after lunch, whereas I used to do a 40-minute brisk walk everyday before I started this job.  I definitely want to find ways to add more physical activities into my day to get into my body more.

Then again, part of me is always concerned that the stress and sweat from the exercise will aggravate my skin and cause breakouts, as has happened many times in the past.  It's very painful to feel stuck between the feeling of imbalance from not exercising enough and the consequences of taking up more physical activities.  I've been dealing with this for many years and haven't fully freed myself from this place.

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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2005, 03:09:11 AM »

I fully understand, as I work similar hours (here it is 1:53am and I'm answering your post after driving from Colorado to California).  I have a degree in Oriental Medicine, own and herb company, and am the tech head for this website, and a couple others (of course this one is my baby).  I often work 14 hour days, and sacrifice large chunks of weekend time to catch up on work.

In my life, I have discovered that I need to get at least 30 minutes of movement, if not an hour (or more Wink ).  When I don't, my body starts to fall apart and I feel very ungrounded.  It is really all about breathing, and being in, as apposed to typing, reading, and being out.  I am always amazed that people spend so much time looking outward for answers, when so much is right here, inside our own bodies and hearts.  If you are worried about breaking out from exercise, you can start with breathing and stretching.  Breathing deep (in clean environments Wink ) is one of the most basic, and overlooked ways that we detoxify.  Breathing is the first technique in most traditional healing systems for building life force.

Move Move Move!  It's  good to be in the body.  (and if you are really addicted to writing software, and it is your passion, then the most amazing ah ha's for me always happen when I am not at the computer.  I give myself space and the insights arrive without focus (although they are more sharply focused than if I was trying to focus). 

Always great chatting with you Sunny.  Have a great day!
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sasha
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 08:35:15 AM »

Hi Sonny

   I am no expert of any kind but I have a piece of info that may help with your skin. I had a friend who had had problems with her skin and nothing seemed to help. one day she had to get an allergy test (I forget why) and was tested for everything. In conclusion found she was allergic to peanuts, which she had eaten all the time. Once she eliminated them from her diet she didn't break out anymore. Just a thought. Good luck on your quest.  Wink
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